Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative enough

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by indiansummer » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:25

i don't have digital radio at the mo so it's been a long time since i listened

but i used to love marc riley, tom robinson, jarvis cocker, the freak zone and even russell howard/jon richardson. never warmed to shaun keavney but it was still nice to hear the breeders and big star first thing in the morning

i think howard and richardson are long gone, with howard becoming especially irritating on telly, but aside from that are the other shows still going?
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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by islandhopper » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:49

Yeah, there's been some occasional breaks from Jarvis but they're all still going.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by iainmayfield » Mon Feb 11, 2013 14:27

Edith Bowman is just very, very irritating.....almost as much as Shaun Keavney - the most pathetic, unfunny man on radio...

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by richgilb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 15:20

islandhopper wrote:
The Saturday morning slot on 6music has never seemed to be one where they've really concentrated on the music, so I don't think Edith is a disappointment in that way anyway. Josie used to play a couple of Scottish indie tracks a week that otherwise wouldn't have been there but that was about that.
It is certainly more chat orientated but it is also one that has a lot of listeners, I think. Allow me to confess the true meaning behind my whinge. My tiny label does fine on evening shows for spins on 6music. But the bands hardly sell any music. With daytime spins they sell quite a few. But it is really hard getting on weekday daytime shows, so the weekend shows have always been the best shows for selling stuff. Example, one band on my label was on Cerys Matthews last week and again this week. We have sold about 30 albums and 20 tracks from these spins so far and this is probably going to increase by another 5 or 10 by wednesday. A spin on Tom Robinson / Ravenscroft can range from 0 to 2 albums.

So to summarize, what I really mean is that it is one less window for bands on tiny labels to get heard by a wider audience and get some of their money back. I suspect the evening shows have listeners of under 100k. I suspect the daytime shows are between 200-500k. Actually, I'm guessing here. Does anyone know the breakdown?

It wasn't just Josie Long championing the microlabels. It was both of them. Andrew Collins played songs released on my label perhaps 10 times.

Who cares abut 6music when you've got Spotify? I do, as it helps the bands recover their recording and pressing costs much quicker than Spotify does at its current rate. Spotify is the devil's scrote if you are trying to help the band break even. We get pages and pages of data from them and it adds up to about 30 quid a quarter across all releases. Not only does 6music help the bands in terms of record sales, it can be around 15 quid in license royalty money too.
Last edited by richgilb on Mon Feb 11, 2013 15:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by richgilb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 15:30

iainmayfield wrote:Edith Bowman is just very, very irritating.
This is indeed another problem, one which would soften for me if I thought she was really into finding new music!

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by Trev » Mon Feb 11, 2013 15:58

richgilb wrote:
iainmayfield wrote:Edith Bowman is just very, very irritating.
This is indeed another problem, one which would soften for me if I thought she was really into finding new music!
Out of interest Rich - what is your label?

I've had Odd Box plays on late night/evening 6 music and can rarely correlate sales from plays.
not really here

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by richgilb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 16:46

Trev wrote: Out of interest Rich - what is your label?

I've had Odd Box plays on late night/evening 6 music and can rarely correlate sales from plays.
Hi Mate....Mollusc Records - you can find most activity here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mollusc- ... 7661960721

I don't even bother sending to Tom Robinson. I leave that to the bands. I actually wonder if he has about 10,000 listeners tops. I don't know one single person that listens to him. In addition, I think you have to waiver the license fee on his really late show, mixtape or something I think it is called.

Similarly, Amazing Radio, Absolute and XFM generate very few sales, often none. We were on Frank Skinner's show twice in the last month. I had big hopes there, as he has 200,000 lisnters and he likes his indie. But his listeners are probably into the chat and the personality.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by indiehorse » Mon Feb 11, 2013 20:03

I'm not sure to what extent I take issue with 6music. I mean, it certainly doesn't fit my utopian vision of how a music radio station should be, but maybe I shouldn't expect it to.

For a start, if it did, then I wouldn't have a chance to listen to everything I wanted to. I'm not even sure how important stations are in my utopian vision of radio - I iplayer all the music shows I want to listen to and play them at a time that's convenient to me, so I don't need a single station to fulfill my requirements for content if it's available elsewhere. And beyond that, of course, there's the fact that my idea of a perfect music radio station won't be identical to everyone else's idea of a perfect music radio station.

So with that in mind, why should I expect 6music to be my perfect radio station? I shall tell you forwhy: because they sell it to me as that. They want me to believe that their target demographic is simply people that are passionate about music, but it's not - it's for people of a certain age and a certain social-background. It's still a demographic I fit into, but I don't want to go to that party - the people there bore me - I want to go to the party where the music lovers are.

I don't mind that some radio shows verge more on the chat side than the music side - there's some DJs I could listen to harp on for hours without giving a shit what they play - but don't pretend you're 6music, when you're really Radio 1-and-a-Half.

But let's accept for a moment that 6music can be home to personality-based shows, it still doesn't explain what the fuck Edith Bowman is doing there. She is void of any personality. I can't for the life of me work out who she's suppose to appeal to. I mean there's some right wallies on the radio who I'd like to stab in the eye, but I can see how there might be an audience for them. I fail to believe that anyone at any point has remarked "you know who I like? That Edith Bowman".

I think BBC radio presenting might just be the most reliable job-for-life out there - a fact oft overlooked by careers advisers. Once you've served your time on Radio 1, you're gracefully be carted off to 6music or Radio 2. Maybe you'll end up on 5live at some point. There doesn't seem much apatite to find fresh new talent, which I feel is something the BBC should be committed to. There must be a sea of music enthusiasts who could present an engaging show. Rather than have the same presenters day in day out for year on year, I think it would work better if they ran more shows on a series basis for a dozen or so weeks and then mix up the schedule, with some shows returning in another dozen or so weeks and the weaker ones quietly being forgotten.

I think that covers most of what I was planning to say on the matter.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by Gordon » Mon Feb 11, 2013 21:57

iainmayfield wrote:Edith Bowman is just very, very irritating.....almost as much as Shaun Keavney - the most pathetic, unfunny man on radio...
No one is that bad.

Re other comment: I think Adam Buxton was only able to commit temporarily, and is clearly hoping Joe will have free time at some stage.

Re why Radio shows exist: Why do documentaries exist when there's google?
Toot toot.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by richgilb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 23:17

indiehorse wrote:I'm not sure to what extent I take issue with 6music. I mean, it certainly doesn't fit my utopian vision of how a music radio station should be, but maybe I shouldn't expect it to.

For a start, if it did, then I wouldn't have a chance to listen to everything I wanted to. I'm not even sure how important stations are in my utopian vision of radio - I iplayer all the music shows I want to listen to and play them at a time that's convenient to me, so I don't need a single station to fulfill my requirements for content if it's available elsewhere. And beyond that, of course, there's the fact that my idea of a perfect music radio station won't be identical to everyone else's idea of a perfect music radio station.

So with that in mind, why should I expect 6music to be my perfect radio station? I shall tell you forwhy: because they sell it to me as that. They want me to believe that their target demographic is simply people that are passionate about music, but it's not - it's for people of a certain age and a certain social-background. It's still a demographic I fit into, but I don't want to go to that party - the people there bore me - I want to go to the party where the music lovers are.

I don't mind that some radio shows verge more on the chat side than the music side - there's some DJs I could listen to harp on for hours without giving a shit what they play - but don't pretend you're 6music, when you're really Radio 1-and-a-Half.

But let's accept for a moment that 6music can be home to personality-based shows, it still doesn't explain what the fuck Edith Bowman is doing there. She is void of any personality. I can't for the life of me work out who she's suppose to appeal to. I mean there's some right wallies on the radio who I'd like to stab in the eye, but I can see how there might be an audience for them. I fail to believe that anyone at any point has remarked "you know who I like? That Edith Bowman".

I think BBC radio presenting might just be the most reliable job-for-life out there - a fact oft overlooked by careers advisers. Once you've served your time on Radio 1, you're gracefully be carted off to 6music or Radio 2. Maybe you'll end up on 5live at some point. There doesn't seem much apatite to find fresh new talent, which I feel is something the BBC should be committed to. There must be a sea of music enthusiasts who could present an engaging show. Rather than have the same presenters day in day out for year on year, I think it would work better if they ran more shows on a series basis for a dozen or so weeks and then mix up the schedule, with some shows returning in another dozen or so weeks and the weaker ones quietly being forgotten.

I think that covers most of what I was planning to say on the matter.
Well said.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by islandhopper » Wed Feb 27, 2013 16:20

tompony wrote: I think it's great that it exists, and for anyone in a band, I'd recommend submitting tracks to Tom Robinson's "fresh on the net" thing. He's played both of the songs I've submitted, one of them twice. And I still think it's pretty fucking exciting to have a song played on the radio!
Thanks for mentioning this. Submitted one of my band's songs a few days after seeing this and just had an email to say we'll be getting played on the mixtape in the next few weeks! Just being played on the radio is also exciting enough for me!

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by tompony » Wed Feb 27, 2013 18:26

Excellent!

Last time I submitted a song, he also played it on his other less-middle-of-the-night show. Tom Robinson is the best.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by islandhopper » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:07

tompony wrote:Excellent!

Last time I submitted a song, he also played it on his other less-middle-of-the-night show. Tom Robinson is the best.
It was one of Tom's personal favourites from that "batch" so we shall see. Would be nice to get a play elsewhere as well. I think you really have to give that man some credit for his beyond the call of duty devotion to new music and helping bands out.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by indiansummer » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:25

was it Tom Robinson who used to play bands he found on myspace by following links from previous bands he'd played?
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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by leon » Thu Feb 28, 2013 14:39

islandhopper wrote:I think you really have to give that man some credit for his beyond the call of duty devotion to new music and helping bands out.
He didn't play us, despite me following his "how to create a professional looking promo cd" advice. Bah.
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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by richgilb » Sat Mar 02, 2013 00:07

2 things about Tom Robinson...firstly, I believe you have to waive your PRS and PPL fee to appear on his late night mixtape? Not sure this is a great situation. Secondly, he told an audience at a conference run by the Association Of Independent Music last year (I was there) that people should stop sending him cds. He says he doesn't listen to them any more. He said he wants downloadable wavs emailing to him. He seemed to be quite irritated by the number of cds he was receiving.

This surprised me, since he is the champion of helping unknowns, yet still has this article about plugging with cds on his site: http://tomrobinson.com/resource/pluggers.htm

This seems rather unhelpful / wasteful / contradictory?

It may be that he will soon pull the advice on the site. He should do, as it costs about 2 quid and a load of time to sort him one out. I guess we all need to sympathise a bit, though.

In a bid to get more airplay for my acts, I went to see 2 pluggers in London last week. One of them told me that each show used to receive about 200 cds a week until 2012, when it seems to have shot up to about 350. This may have something to do with their now-impressive listening figures of nearly 2 million per week.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by tonieee » Sat Mar 02, 2013 09:17

richgilb wrote:2 things about Tom Robinson...firstly, I believe you have to waive your PRS and PPL fee to appear on his late night mixtape? Not sure this is a great situation.
Is that because they have the freely downloadable podcast and it's the only way to do it without getting in trouble with the PRS? If you listen to the podcasts of any other BBC radio programmes then they rarely have complete songs which makes them a bit pointless. It's probably because the PRS won't allow them to do it or want to charge per download and that's why you have to opt out for that show.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by richgilb » Sat Mar 02, 2013 09:25

Not sure about that but you may be right. But I wonder if they also can't afford to pay for 24 hours of broadcast music but want to be a 24 hour station.

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by humblebee » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:09

richgilb wrote:This surprised me, since he is the champion of helping unknowns, yet still has this article about plugging with cds on his site: http://tomrobinson.com/resource/pluggers.htm

This seems rather unhelpful / wasteful / contradictory?
Why are they so obsessed with release dates? What's that got to do with the price of fish?

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Re: Another new 6music show that simply isn't alternative en

Post by richgilb » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:00

I think that release dates are important if your objective is introducing new music to listeners. To be fair to Tom Robinson, who is probably less fussed about release dates than the station as a whole, he was responding to a question from a label in the audience

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