A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

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Trev
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by Trev » Thu May 17, 2012 17:05

Location is a long way off - and it might not even be in London (if it happens at all) and as already mentioned this is going to be a broad church musically. We couldn't survive on indiepop alone. This I am sure of.

But one pratical problem with West is simple it's more expensive than East, that's why everything is currently going east because it's cheaper to rent etc out that way.

Thanks for the other suggestions and the link. It's all going in the pot of ideas.
Last edited by Trev on Thu May 17, 2012 17:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by a layer of chips » Thu May 17, 2012 17:07

I think that if we can get some funding we should take it. Rates alone will eat up a vast amount of money and if we can get some relief on that through other means we should take it. A bit of compromise might be needed initially.

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by Trev » Thu May 17, 2012 17:08

a layer of chips wrote:I think that if we can get some funding we should take it. Rates alone will eat up a vast amount of money and if we can get some relief on that through other means we should take it. A bit of compromise might be needed initially.
I agree with this. We need to be flexible whilst not being scumbags about it.
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by a layer of chips » Thu May 17, 2012 17:15

What we also need to remember is that commercial property in london hasn't suffered as in other parts of the country. It's still expensive down there. Sorry to get all tossy but it's worth thinking about. Landlords will do anything to fill property at the oment because of the lowered threshold on empty rates relief, but the london market has escaped all that. I'll stop talking like a twat now.

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by Trev » Thu May 17, 2012 17:18

a layer of chips wrote:What we also need to remember is that commercial property in london hasn't suffered as in other parts of the country. It's still expensive down there. Sorry to get all tossy but it's worth thinking about. Landlords will do anything to fill property at the oment because of the lowered threshold on empty rates relief, but the london market has escaped all that. I'll stop talking like a twat now.
Nah, it's this kinda of stuff that helps, too.
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by Colin » Thu May 17, 2012 18:48

I've only skimmed the thread so far but it all sounds promising. Once a few more details are in place could a Kickstarter campaign be worth thinking about?

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by linus » Thu May 17, 2012 18:49

I rambled on about the harlow square one club on here last night and then deleted it because it sounded like the ramblings of a mad man... ant chapman might know a bit about the history of it, trev, and I thought of it because I saw mac who used to run it stood outside the famous cock tavern (is it a tavern? a tavern or an inn?) on the sunday of the odd box weekender and I meant to go and say hello but in the end I didn't (this is interesting) but I'm sure the square one used to be council owned... it was licensed for music and serving alcohol and acted as a venue, a practice area, a recording studio (I think ant recorded skinned teen there, amongst others), a youth club, probably a juggling school and all sorts of other fun things... it did seem like before mac got involved it was barely functioning and just getting by with local bands but once he did there seemed to be gigs five nights out of seven and probably it didn't make any money but in an area where there was fuck all to do it was often rammed... there were loads of great gigs during that time (dan withered hand might back me up on this, because he was a regular too)

I'm not suggesting you up sticks to harlow but that kind of 'model' might work... alternatively I might just be talking misty-eyed shite that helps nobody... but I yam what I yam, I guess

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by SophieC » Thu May 17, 2012 19:53

fucking top blue sky thinking peeps.

sumac centre here in nottingham runs along the same lines as the 1 in 12 club. it's a private members club and that gets it round the worst of the licensing regulations. £3 a year. you'd have to have a board of trustees, regular minuted meetings and keep up to date accurate accounts etc to go down that route afaik.

http://www.veggies.org.uk/sumac/index.php

they have a volunteer staffed bar that stocks sam smith's beers. because they're cheap and yet don't taste like drinking lighter fluid.

i'm the fire warden at work if anyone wants any pitifully meagre advice on that front, the fire brigade will have a fire safety liasion officer who can tell you about making the place compliant though.
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by crystalball » Thu May 17, 2012 21:45

Brilliant. And I'm in, wherever it might be!

Can't reply properly right now but I wanted to say I'd help any way I can - and because over the years I've been thinking along very similar lines, I have some ideas.

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by leon » Thu May 17, 2012 22:06

Oh I forgot to say, I'm a planning officer (yeah, I know) so if you want general advice of that type, just let me know. London (or wherever you settle on) might have slightly different rules to Bradford but I should be able to be of some help. Planning is especially relevant if you decide to take on a premises that doesn't already have a use class of public house or music venue etc - a change of use application might be required. Therefore location is key - is the venue an appropriate use for that area, will it impact on local residents, what about parking/traffic/blah blah blah...but if you take on an existing licensed premises/venue you won't have all those headaches so its something to bear in mind.

If you put signage up on the building that might required advertisement consent too. You're a long way off that stuff yet but shout me when you get to that stage.
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by stolenwine » Fri May 18, 2012 01:14

i'd totally be up for helping out too. this is a great idea! decky and i were talking about something similar and how amazing it would be if it could happen. so yes, we'd both probably be up for getting involved/helping etc.
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by Eddie » Fri May 18, 2012 01:23

Holy shit people. I hang out with a friend for the evening, come back and find three pages on this? Wonderful.

First things first:
roundbitsofplastic wrote:Also, I will pledge a minimum of £2,000 right now. I'm not fucking joking. I know that's pennies when it comes to it, but there we have it.
This. Absolutely. I'd happily kick in this sort of figure to make something like this happen.

Now, it's late, and I'm tired and cranky, so a few general points from what I've skim read:

- The idea of it only being used for 'DIY' promoters is potentially limiting. Which could just be me being selfish given I'm trying to do promoting as a business venture (on larger gigs - smaller ones we usually pay the bands everything and take nothing). So long as the right attitude is there, I see no issue with promoters who are running as a business.

- Bands probably wouldn't be able to sleep at a venue, useful as that would be. That's a guess purely from the coworking space I'm involved with - we've got a strict licence and aren't allowed to use our building for anything after 11pm, including just being socially, and it's particularly stressed that it can't be used for sleeping. Granted an 'office' will have a different licence to a venue, but I can't imagine many council going for something that would essentially make it a 24 hour building.

- Alcohol from cans is a hell of a lot more profitable than anything else. It's how we've done reasonably well when running our gigs on a boat.

- Arts funding would be very useful. I've got a number of contacts who may or may not be able to point people in the right direction in that regard.

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by Al2001 » Fri May 18, 2012 01:31

Wharf Chambers (http://www.wharfchambers.org/?p=238) in Leeds is a co-op too. They've opened fairly recently so they've been going through all the planning/licensing rigmarole in the last 12 months and I'm sure would be willing to give advice.

They do a bottle/can bar but have also bought the odd barrel from local microbreweries for big events.

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by roundbitsofplastic » Fri May 18, 2012 10:25

Victor of Humousexual does something like town planning in That London. He might be worth an ask.

Eddie: I don't think that DIY = hobby. I've been reading a lot of things recently that seem to imply that DIY means people can't earn a living. This is entirely not in keeping with my view or the history of DIY (as I see it). Just because in the majority of cases people are involved in DIY scenes as a part of their life separate to however they make a living, and because making profit from DIY events it's -for the most part - out of the question, I do not see that DIY and making a living are, or should/ be mutually exclusive.

I imagine I will remain at best skeptical of external funding. I know no one is going to take it lightly, but it's something we would need to be extremely careful about, in how it might limit our ability to run this how we see fit. That said, what I think of as being appropriate may well be different to what you think of as being appropriate. We've got a loooooooong way to go.

I'm well looking forward to this :-D

EDIT

I don't want anyone to think I'm being a dick. I just worry. I certainly think we should explore all avenues at the outset.
Last edited by roundbitsofplastic on Fri May 18, 2012 13:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by tekno_alice » Fri May 18, 2012 11:52

sounds interesting, keep me in the loop Trev. Will help if I can.

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by leon » Fri May 18, 2012 12:46

roundbitsofplastic wrote:Victor of Humousexual does something like town planning in That London. He might be worth an ask.
If he does then he'd probably know more than me if the venue sets up in London, but I'll help if I can.
Leon: I don't think that DIY = hobby.
Did I say that? I don't remember.

EDIT: That line above looks like I'm snapping at you Ray but I'm not!
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by roundbitsofplastic » Fri May 18, 2012 13:49

leon wrote:
Did I say that? I don't remember.

EDIT: That line above looks like I'm snapping at you Ray but I'm not!
Shit, sorry! That was Eddie!

Eek! I'll got edit that now *blushes*
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by lynsosaurus » Fri May 18, 2012 14:03

This all sounds ACE. I've been thinking about something like this for ages now too, wondering how it would work. I know I'm miles away but I would love to be involved in any capacity I can be useful so please sign me up!

The dream, of course, is that we could have a wee network of such places across the country and help and support each other. Imagine.

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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by Trev » Fri May 18, 2012 14:14

lynsosaurus wrote:The dream, of course, is that we could have a wee network of such places across the country and help and support each other. Imagine.
THIS!
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Re: A co-operative venue in London (or elsewhere)?

Post by roundbitsofplastic » Fri May 18, 2012 14:20

Totally agreed, with you two. *siiiigh*
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