Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

popbands, poplabels, poprecords

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ShaunBrilldream
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Re: Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

Post by ShaunBrilldream » Thu May 21, 2015 15:35

Further on from that, I was at a Q&A with Matt from Sarah after a showing of My Secret World in Bristol. Someone asked him what he listens to these days. He said the last album he really loved was by Dizzee Rascal, but he was put off from seeing him live as he didn't want to be "the weird old white man on his own at the back". Which I found crushingly sad.
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Re: Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

Post by RITH » Thu May 21, 2015 15:36

As a sidenote, because we're mentioning Sarah Records and racism both here, and in my mind some things connected and I had to think of this album:

Image

This was an indiepop anti-racist benefit album. Is anyone aware of any other specific actions or releases with that purpose?

(Maybe this is more something to ask in the other thread?)
Last edited by RITH on Thu May 21, 2015 15:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

Post by RITH » Thu May 21, 2015 15:56

crystalball wrote:Having said that, 'our' venues isn't always a thing - as in, if anyone remembers what happened at The Windmill a few years back with The Tuts, sometimes venues won't be on board (and, in that case, they'll be actively abusive).
Lovely post, Marianthi. Maybe you've seen we're also talking about this on Facebook in the Indiepop Riot Shop group (sorry to refer here to a closed FB group to those not on there), and the things you said here also came up over there, specifically the concern about venues that could go against the promoter's good intentions. I think it's important that if (someone connected to) a venue behaves badly, they will be held accountable and if things don't get resolved in a satisfying way the venue won't be used again. The same could go for bands or band members who behave in unacceptable/uninclusive ways.

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Re: Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

Post by kieran kawaii » Thu May 21, 2015 18:05

i don't think there is such a thing as 'white music' and 'black music' but i do think people's identity will shape the art they create and engage with. the converse of this is a kind of classic defense of privilege along the lines of 'i don't hate gays but why do they go on about bumming all the time and come out with sexual innuendo'. the problem with this line is of course that oppressive cultures often function by silencing anything that promotes 'blackness', 'gayness' etc.

the flaw in the argument is that if you think indiepop shows should just contain indiepop bands and there is also a lack of diversity in indiepop bands then you are never going to solve the issue.

it also seems pretty odd to argue that people have some kind of innate taste which is independent of their background. i'm not sure what the point of this discussion is if you think 'people just like what they like'.

again, i don't really have a problem with bills where multiple genres of music are played.

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Re: Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

Post by noLooking » Thu May 21, 2015 18:49

kieran kawaii wrote:i don't think there is such a thing as 'white music' and 'black music' but i do think people's identity will shape the art they create and engage with. the converse of this is a kind of classic defense of privilege along the lines of 'i don't hate gays but why do they go on about bumming all the time and come out with sexual innuendo'. the problem with this line is of course that oppressive cultures often function by silencing anything that promotes 'blackness', 'gayness' etc.
True enough, although I admitted the possibility (and yes, the probability) of an unconscious whiteness. I'd still like to see specific examples of homophobia in the indiepop idiom when it specifically promotes more feminised aspects of maleness and, within the DiY world, interconnects with music that comes obviously from gay culture (Tuff Enuff for example).
the flaw in the argument is that if you think indiepop shows should just contain indiepop bands and there is also a lack of diversity in indiepop bands then you are never going to solve the issue.
I don't think that specifically, I'm just not sure of the practicalities of how it would work - what I meant to get across is that it's difficult to put on cross-genre shows whatever the genres are, not specifically relating to a cross of racial cultures. I'd like to see those shows.
it also seems pretty odd to argue that people have some kind of innate taste which is independent of their background. i'm not sure what the point of this discussion is if you think 'people just like what they like'.
Taste and background come together to some degree but surely background doesn't fully determine your taste. I like music by white and black artists in different genres. The fact that hip-hop comes from outside the culture that I was brought up in hasn't stopped me from liking it. Lots of white people like hip-hop. I don't see what's to stop people from minority groups from liking indiepop as a genre - clearly some do if there's has been talk of them feeling excluded from something that they want to be part of. I accept that if it's perceived to be exclusive culturally then that's a problem, which is presumably where the point of this thread comes in.

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Re: Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

Post by indiehorse » Thu May 21, 2015 18:50

andyiong wrote:This may work but it may be that, more generally, fans of hip-hop don't want to see a jangly band or indiepop fans don't want to see a rapper and make their choice accordingly. Commercial considerations come into play - I can think of plenty of gigs I've heard about where the support band was bottled off because they didn't appeal to the tastes of the headliner's fans - I can imagine Veronica Falls suffering a similar fate if they were to support, say, Public Enemy. Even in a more sedate atmosphere, I can see good reasons why promoters would avoid putting on such gigs.
Ehhh, yeah, people being bottled off stage is a pretty sure sign you're not in an inclusive, safe environment. If there's a genuine concern that this kind of behaviour might take place within the indiepop/diy/whatever community then we're in worse shape than I thought.

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Re: Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

Post by Trev » Thu May 21, 2015 19:01

I think DIY gigs can be diverse and appealing (the examples sited were hardly pertaining to a DIY level about a jangle band following a hip hop band - those bands play bigger venues with all that it entails) - you don't have to follow jangle band with another jangle band or a riot grrrl band with another riot grrrl band. Odd Box tries to mix it up from time to time when I can book the right band and I don't think anyone is at risk of being 'bottled' or booed off stage, well, I certainly hope not.

The Fish Police played the weekender. They were arguably the HIT of the weekend and they were sandwiched between Dog Legs and Slowcoaches two of the more raucous bands playing. There was no bottling or booing. Just a lot of people enjoying. I'd book more bands that challenge the audience musically if they were a) known to me, b) keen to play c) affordable. This challenging musically is a different thing to making things inclusive too.

So I am not sure why anyone would think this is likely to be the case with a show that did try and mix it up. Saying that the weekender was attended by a predominantly white audience but that is the 'scene' (for want of a better word) at the moment. It has narrow appeal and it does seem to attract a lot of white folks. Which is where I think Dennis came in and said what can we do it to make it more inclusive.

Sorry if this is drifting off topic a little.
Last edited by Trev on Thu May 21, 2015 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indiepop: a celebration of diversity

Post by noLooking » Thu May 21, 2015 19:06

indiehorse wrote:Ehhh, yeah, people being bottled off stage is a pretty sure sign you're not in an inclusive, safe environment. If there's a genuine concern that this kind of behaviour might take place within the indiepop/diy/whatever community then we're in worse shape than I thought.
Yeah, perhaps I didn't get my point across very well. As above:
What I meant to get across is that it's difficult to put on cross-genre shows whatever the genres are, not specifically relating to a cross of racial cultures. I'd like to see those shows.
I was thinking specifically of when Broadcast would first play shows with other Warp artists, they would get all sorts of shit for not being "proper" Warp. To be honest, I've no idea of how this plays in DiY, I just wonder if it's difficult to get two bands from completely different genres in the room and it not affect ticket sales, etc.

When I said a 'more sedate environment', I was referring specifically to these kind of smaller, more intimate gigs, rather than the example that I used, where I was thinking of a massive show - I wasn't suggesting that people would get bottled off at DiY gigs. But if you've done this and it still brings a good crowd, fair enough, after all you're the expert.

Edit upon reflection - I think what I was thinking of was more that everyone always seems to be complaining that they crowds aren't as big as they need to be as it is, and bills for small gigs don't tend to be especially hierarchical (as far as I can see), there usually isn't some big draw of a band. Ultimately, I probably got to the end of the points I wanted to make and ventured into country I don't know enough about to make informed comment, which is why I wondered instead of stated (and why I probably shouldn't have done either).

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