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Is indiepop racist?

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 18:01
by Carys
I'm going to be honest: my knowledge of African politics is slim to non-existent. I believe Morocco was colonised by Spain and France, and Zimbabwe by Britain? So whatever the current political climate in these countries, white colonialism surely needs to be factored in? But yeah: I'm prepared to admit my ignorance here.

However, I do believe looking for the relatively rare examples of racial discrimination against white people risks derailing the conversation.

Re: Is indiepop racist?

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 18:32
by Tom Mascot
Doesn't racism just mean discriminating against someone based on their race? Not all people of the same skin colour are from the same ethnic background. White people can be racist towards white people.

I know people from a mixed background who say they have experienced the same kind of racism from people of each of their parental ethnicities. Can I tell them that the only type that counts is the one that matches that which is institutionalised in their country? I agree on power structures to an extent, but an individual isn't necessarily 'under' just one of these structures. They exist within countries, communities, workplaces, even families.

I think it's good that people who fundamentally agree can differ on the minutia. If the debate doesn't cease, things can improve, right?

I remember working in an all-female environment and being the constant target for sexist jibes. It was uncomfortable and irritating, but it didn't make me think "this is a bigger problem throughout the population than sexism in the opposite direction." But you should never feel you have a licence to do this because "it's historically/nationally the other way around so deal with it."

Re: Is indiepop racist?

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 20:24
by Yex
Cloudy Cat wrote:I'm obviously not denying that black people have a far more profound and distressing experience of racism, I'm just saying that it's possible to experience racism whatever colour you are. If some disagree and deny what happened as racism then that's fine, I do understand their viewpoint.
Tom Mascot wrote:Doesn't racism just mean discriminating against someone based on their race?
The way I see it, there's racism with a little r and Racism with a capital R. That is to say, racism can mean individual prejudices based around race, but it can also mean a system of power built into the very fabric of society. It is possible for someone to hate white people just because they're white, but, in the context of global capitalism and imperialism (and specific third world examples notwithstanding), Racism in the latter sense exists solely as a system that keeps whites at the top, and oppresses people of color.

I think, though, that even in the former sense - someone's personal racial prejudices - there's a difference between racism against whites and racism against people of color. Such prejudices need to be seen in the context of broader, societal Racism. If a black person hates me or treats me poorly because I'm white, it's not right, but it's understandable, because they have grown up in a society where they've been oppressed by white people their whole lives. It's kind of like when hamas lobs their rockets over at Israel. They probably shouldn't do it, but you can't really blame them. On the other hand, when a white person holds personal negative views of people of color, or treats them poorly based on their race, those microaggressions reenforce the larger, systematic Racism. As a result, incidental racism against white people hardly even falls in the same category as racism of any sort against people of color.

Re: Is indiepop racist?

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 21:47
by leon
Well put Yex.

Re: Is indiepop racist?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:06
by bend sinister
here did we ever get to the bottom of this?