my bloody valentine

everything else

Moderator: Paquito

SophieC
Posts: 3979
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 19:36
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/jamiec
Location: bumtown

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by SophieC » Fri Jun 27, 2008 15:52

bocken wrote:
humblebee wrote:Go on last.fm or whatever and all the MBV listeners now, their other top bands are all blokerock bluster and the Valentines slip right in between Radiohead and the Red Hot Chilli Peppers.
I think you're reaching a bit here.

http://www.last.fm/music/My+Bloody+Valentine/+similar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JamieC wrote:actually maybe i should give MBV another chance, it's just the minute someone canonises music i'm immediately put off by it.
Good job the Smiths were never put in any canons.
ha. fair enough. i'm going to claim that i was 16 the existance of a canon and its contents were fairly unknown to me. therefore it doesn't count. and i'm sticking that and now i'm sticking my fingers in my ears and going *nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr* so i think i win that one.

congratulations on not making a canon / cannon joke their by the way. commenable.
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick.'

SophieC
Posts: 3979
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 19:36
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/jamiec
Location: bumtown

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by SophieC » Fri Jun 27, 2008 15:53

a layer of chips wrote:Still, "You Made Me Realise" is fucking ace, isn't it? That'll never change.
it's alright. i prefer 'i keep mine hidden' though.
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick.'

User avatar
Trev
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:56
Last.fm: lostmusic
Location: Cardiff
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by Trev » Fri Jun 27, 2008 15:56

crystalball wrote:
Trev Lostmusic wrote:
But it's exactly what they were doing 16 years ago. So it's the same statement!
I really don't mean to go on about it because I know that the vast majority of people enjoyed the shows immensely so I'm in the minority here, but since we're having this discussion, I don't think it's the same statement - in fact I don't think it's a statement at all. Like linus said, they are just another rock myth now and to me it felt like they were cashing in on that.
I have to disagree. Because that's how you perceive them. And I don't mean to be rude - but this is starting to smack of musical snobbery more than reaction to a gig. I don't see how it can be anything other than what it was - 4 people calling themselves My Bloody Valentine and playing some music for people who'd paid to see them do it. If that gig had happened in 1994 - we'd not be having this discussions.

For me they were great - not as good as I remember them - but still great in my opinion.

And I am not one to buy into their myth - as I think KS is pretty much a dick. But at least with his MBV hat on - he's a dick I can listen to all day long.
not really here

User avatar
Trev
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:56
Last.fm: lostmusic
Location: Cardiff
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by Trev » Fri Jun 27, 2008 15:59

humblebee wrote:
Trev Lostmusic wrote:The context is they're playing a gig. They sound damn similar to they did in 1992. If people perceive it differently - it's not the bands fault - is it?

I saw them in 87, 90, 92 and again last week - and the comparisons between 92 and last week is that the band were loud. They were louder in 92. Audience reaction was different - but again - this isn't the bands fault - is it?
Isn't it?

They've chosen to come back, and they've chosen (I think!) not to do new stuff, not engage with or relate or respond to anything that's happened since '92. Fair enough, 's up to them, etc etc. But if they seem less vital or distinctive or inspiring or necessary than they did when you saw them back in the day (yer lucky bleeder!) then it's because of decisions that the band themselves have taken and did not have to take. They can't be absolved of all responsibility for how they are heard.
Fair enough - but I still think the way people reacting is based on their preconceived ideas - and this can't be down to the band.
not really here

User avatar
humblebee
Posts: 10543
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 16:33
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/atomicbeatboy
Location: Sheffields
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by humblebee » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:03

By the by, with regard to the 'new indiepop is safe music' argument, well, actually, what made indiepop challenging 20 years ago is still relevant today. Sure, we all like playing gigs to our mates... but there are actually plenty of things you could do that are safer than standing up in a provincial town to play deliberately un-macho, provocatively 'feminine' music and perhaps more than ever now that 'indie' a la Hard-Fi has become the property of snarling boneheads. tonieee Parallelogram is the living embodiment of indiepop and he takes his life in his hands every time he leaves his house, let alone takes the stage in Stoke festooned in plastic bracelets and nail varnish.

So let's not equate rebellion with noise because we're way past that. Let's not equate rebellion with 'experimental' song structures either... because the world is much more complicated and ironic and comical and incorrigibly plural than that too.

User avatar
gloom button
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 17:57
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by gloom button » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:05

JamieC wrote:this is purely personal and i'm not having a dig, but the mental equatation that happens in my brain when i hear music that can be classified as 'ethereal', be it later MBV, a multitude of shoegaze chancers, the cocteau twins and all the 4AD stuff, the orb, chillout music, that bloke i saw in a pub who just wanged a single note on his guitar and let it drone on for twenty minutes, all those clever but tuneless folkers = v. boring. when i encounter music like this at gigs i usually spend my time looking round at the collective enraptured faces wondering what exactly they're getting from it. i feel like an aethist at a funeral half heartedly mumbling hymns.
that's the diggiest non-dig i've ever read. i know it's not hard these days to make (well, approximate) etherealish music or whatever you want to call it, but i think it's pretty unfair if you're saying that my bloody valentine's or the cocteau twins stuff in particular was somehow easy to do or the same as just playing a note for 20 minutes or dashed off or whatever.

i suppose (on a complete tangent) i find the disparity between the amount of time and effort invested by the writer and by the audience a bit distressing sometimes, but that's probably just me being odd and cantankerous so never mind.
the trouble with personalities, they're too wrapped up in style
it's too personal; they're in love with their own guile

User avatar
Mr Bear
Posts: 2816
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:48
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/cold_discovery
Location: Here and there

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by Mr Bear » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:10

Trev Lostmusic wrote:
Fair enough - but I still think the way people reacting is based on their preconceived ideas - and this can't be down to the band.
You were always for it once you brought indiepop into the equation.

Er, winkface.

User avatar
annie
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 17:45
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/andyandannie
Location: london

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by annie » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:18

humblebee wrote:By the by, with regard to the 'new indiepop is safe music' argument, well, actually, what made indiepop challenging 20 years ago is still relevant today. Sure, we all like playing gigs to our mates... but there are actually plenty of things you could do that are safer than standing up in a provincial town to play deliberately un-macho, provocatively 'feminine' music and perhaps more than ever now that 'indie' a la Hard-Fi has become the property of snarling boneheads.
so that makes it somehow more interesting to be writing mediocre, derivative music? i really couldn't care less about how 'challenging' it is to make a certain kind of music in a certain kind of place if the results bores me. (please note i've never heard the parallellograms so this in no way refers to them!)

i shouldn't be posting this on an indiepop forum should i? sorry guys. i just don't find myself getting excited about indiepop the way i used to, while i still get excited about plenty of music.

SophieC
Posts: 3979
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 19:36
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/jamiec
Location: bumtown

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by SophieC » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:27

gloom button wrote:
that's the diggiest non-dig i've ever read. i know it's not hard these days to make (well, approximate) etherealish music or whatever you want to call it, but i think it's pretty unfair if you're saying that my bloody valentine's or the cocteau twins stuff in particular was somehow easy to do or the same as just playing a note for 20 minutes or dashed off or whatever.

digging is what i do best. not physical digging, i'm shit at that. i think i compared MBV with pub man the two because the audience and my reaction to them. i have short shrift with this trancendence through music malarky and i'm entirely unmoved, a little bored and restless whilst everyone else is floating on a cloud of musical nirvana and has discovered a higher plane of conciousness. and also they both do sound aproximately the same to my ears. i am a very ignorant boy i realise. all this suggests it's something wrong with me not everyone else.

i just don't get it and i don't think i ever will and i'm very bitter about it.
i suppose (on a complete tangent) i find the disparity between the amount of time and effort invested by the writer and by the audience a bit distressing sometimes, but that's probably just me being odd and cantankerous so never mind.
i remember reading about some bunch of people who improvised a song together then slowed it down and so that it actually took more time to listen to it than i did to write and record it. that's the kind of audio experimenatation i'm down with. i'm a social realist with my musical taste, too much cladding and pebble dash and i grow weary.

i'm so generation XYZ.

god i'm wittering. i'm bored at work, ignore me. please.
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick.'

User avatar
Paquito
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 00:15
Location: Embra
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by Paquito » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:28

Maybe I'm just a simple sort, but all I'll say is that on Wednesday night I'm off to see a band whose records I quite like and who I never thought I'd see live. That'll do me.

I'm viewing this reunion (well, it's more a reconvening!) hopefully like the Dinosaur Jr one - Mascis, Barlow and Murphy got back together and played gigs with songs exclusively from the first 3 LPs. They ended up having a heap of fun. They ended up recording a new LP, an LP that I thought was pretty much up there in the indie rock releases of last year. They continue to play gigs, the new LP features a lot more in their sets, they play songs off the LPs in between Barlow leaving and rejoining. It all works quite beautifully. I know this is Shields we're talking about and his propensity for faffing about in search of perfection but I hope he's seen Dino Jr as the template. (and considering I saw him and Mascis walking around together at an ATP then why wouldn't he?)
They don't call me Hawkeye Gilhooley... at all

User avatar
gloom button
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 17:57
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by gloom button » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:31

JamieC wrote:digging is what i do best. not physical digging, i'm shit at that. i think i compared MBV with pub man the two because the audience and my reaction to them. i have short shrift with this trancendence through music malarky and i'm entirely unmoved, a little bored and restless whilst everyone else is floating on a cloud of musical nirvana and has discovered a higher plane of conciousness. and also they both do sound aproximately the same to my ears. i am a very ignorant boy i realise. all this suggests it's something wrong with me not everyone else.

i just don't get it and i don't think i ever will and i'm very bitter about it.
I'm not particularly taken with people overblowing music (or many things) to transcendent proportions either. I just don't think it's fair to write off something that's not easy to do as something easy to do. But sorry if that's not what you were saying and I'm being humorless.

Annie, this isn't an indiepop forum! It just has indiepop on it. Like just-Christians-in-a-rock-band or something. I've brought Christian rock into the thread. I'm sorry.
the trouble with personalities, they're too wrapped up in style
it's too personal; they're in love with their own guile

User avatar
Trev
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:56
Last.fm: lostmusic
Location: Cardiff
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by Trev » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:44

humblebee wrote:By the by, with regard to the 'new indiepop is safe music' argument, well, actually, what made indiepop challenging 20 years ago is still relevant today. Sure, we all like playing gigs to our mates... but there are actually plenty of things you could do that are safer than standing up in a provincial town to play deliberately un-macho, provocatively 'feminine' music and perhaps more than ever now that 'indie' a la Hard-Fi has become the property of snarling boneheads. tonieee Parallelogram is the living embodiment of indiepop and he takes his life in his hands every time he leaves his house, let alone takes the stage in Stoke festooned in plastic bracelets and nail varnish.

So let's not equate rebellion with noise because we're way past that. Let's not equate rebellion with 'experimental' song structures either... because the world is much more complicated and ironic and comical and incorrigibly plural than that too.
Oh I dunno. I know what I was trying to say and it was supposed to run down indiepop - but I can't say, with hand on my heart, that 99% of guitar pop can be anything than safe in 2008 - as this music is nearly 60 years old - the politics behind it is a different matter - but I was only talking about the music and not the ethos behind it.

I'll shut up now and and try and ignore this thread as I don't want to ruin my memory of what I thought was a great gig.
not really here

alongwalkhome

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by alongwalkhome » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:46

gloom button wrote:I'm not particularly taken with people overblowing music (or many things) to transcendent proportions either. I just don't think it's fair to write off something that's not easy to do as something easy to do. But sorry if that's not what you were saying and I'm being humorless.

Annie, this isn't an indiepop forum! It just has indiepop on it. Like just-Christians-in-a-rock-band or something. I've brought Christian rock into the thread. I'm sorry.
This all feels very confessional! The way Jamie described his reaction to shoegaze is how I react to at least 75% of C86. I HATE (what I perceive as) weak or breathy woman voices. They bore me to tears (waits to be stoned by the indie-pop masses) and wind me up.

Actually, it feels good to have said that and none of this looks, to me, like arguing at all. I think its "editorial" in it's truest form--giving opinions! I love it. We should rename this thread--Let it All Out! A Place to Air Musical Opinions Which May Yield Horrified Gasps.

User avatar
Trev
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:56
Last.fm: lostmusic
Location: Cardiff
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by Trev » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:50

PandaBear wrote:
Trev Lostmusic wrote:
Fair enough - but I still think the way people reacting is based on their preconceived ideas - and this can't be down to the band.
You were always for it once you brought indiepop into the equation.

Er, winkface.
Eh? Someone else brought up the idea of music being safe or unsafe. I just stated that no guitar based pop music (including indiepop) can be anything other than safe musically in 2008.
not really here

SophieC
Posts: 3979
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 19:36
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/jamiec
Location: bumtown

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by SophieC » Fri Jun 27, 2008 16:56

Trev Lostmusic wrote:
Eh? Someone else brought up the idea of music being safe or unsafe. I just stated that no guitar based pop music (including indiepop) can be anything other than safe musically in 2008.
whereas in 2006 when pete green played the dsfar xmas gig with a huge rip down the crotch of his jeans, the audience was anything but safe. but two years on, he's settled down and got a bourgeois gusset. shame on you green, shame.
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick.'

User avatar
Mr Bear
Posts: 2816
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:48
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/cold_discovery
Location: Here and there

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by Mr Bear » Fri Jun 27, 2008 17:01

Trev Lostmusic wrote:
PandaBear wrote:
You were always for it once you brought indiepop into the equation.

Er, winkface.
Eh? Someone else brought up the idea of music being safe or unsafe. I just stated that no guitar based pop music (including indiepop) can be anything other than safe musically in 2008.
Sorry, I was just trying to be wry.

I shouldn't even be in here, I've never heard anything by MBV...or even much indiepop.

User avatar
crystalball
Posts: 5197
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 18:04
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/felters
Location: That London
Contact:

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by crystalball » Fri Jun 27, 2008 17:26

Trev Lostmusic wrote:I'll shut up now and and try and ignore this thread as I don't want to ruin my memory of what I thought was a great gig.
Oh, I feel bad now. I know I was really pissed off when people (Tom) were slagging off The Orchids after Indietracks... I hope it hasn't ruined it for you. Good discussion though!

linus

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by linus » Fri Jun 27, 2008 17:38

annie wrote:i shouldn't be posting this on an indiepop forum should i? sorry guys.
well, that would be a shame... there's a heavy indiepop bias, obviously, but I much prefer a forum that encompasses a diverse mix of viewpoints and tastes, provided the enthusiam, sincerity and excitement's there

my take on MBV is I didn't see them this time around, we've got history, I wish I'd wanted to see them more, perhaps I'll regret it (I don't right now)

I think that keeping your fans waiting for 16 years is going to result in opinion becoming polarised amongst that group, that the reaction to these gigs is not a uniform 'this is a good thing' doesn't mean that those expressing doubt are musical snobs, or any other type of snobs... and less positive comments shouldn't detract from what was clearly a good night out for (most of) those that went

and I hope it doesn't stop you (or anyone) posting here

linus

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by linus » Fri Jun 27, 2008 17:43

christ, I'm incredibly po-faced

User avatar
annie
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 17:45
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/andyandannie
Location: london

Re: my bloody valentine

Post by annie » Fri Jun 27, 2008 17:54

linus wrote:and I hope it doesn't stop you (or anyone) posting here
oh, that's not what i meant! i just figured that it might be seen as deliberate provocation to dismiss a lot of the music that people on this forum get so excited about (after all, there's the 'indiePOP!' forum and the 'other music we love' forum. which says a lot), and that's not my intention. it just saddens me that i find most of it just so uninspiring nowadays. it's not like disagreeing with others would keep me from posting what i think. if anything, it's the difficulty i often have translating my thoughts into writing that stops me from getting more involved in conversations like this.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest