The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

popbands, poplabels, poprecords

Moderator: shaved head thrills

Jangloid Mark
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 18:38
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/JanglyMark
Location: Swansea, Wales
Contact:

The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by Jangloid Mark » Thu Mar 01, 2012 14:12

I know the initial reaction that this will get...

'It's simply can't happen whether we want it to or not'
'It won't happen'
'Are you stoned again, Jangly?' (answer : Nope...completely straight right now)

Well, in 1990, when 'Babies' by Pulp came out (and got compared to Momus in many of the reviews), who would have thought that just a couple years later, it would be a crowd pleaser in a headline Reading Festival set?

When 'Joe' by Inspiral Carpets came out, who would have thought that just over a year later, th debut album would be a chart topper?

In more recent times, Camera Obscura have gone top 40 and Magntic Fields, a band with indiepop roots are hovering just a little away (the last album making no. 24 on Amazon).

So, should a bunch of indiepop bands go mainstream, what would be the advantages?

For me, it would mean that bands that I like get played on mainstream radio (and, therefore in shops and supermarkets) nd on the telly...

It would mean that record shops actually stocked records I wanted to buy (ok, with Amazon in existance, this is less important now)....

It would mean that I could go to indie clubs and other people might actually have a clue about the bnds I was droning on about...

ok...over to you lot...
Love is a weakness in the knees...it's dangerous on the stairs...

Bandcamp : https://janglymark.bandcamp.com/
Facebook : http://www.facebook.com/Jangly.Mark
Skype : Jangly Mark (feel free to call me)

User avatar
RITH
Posts: 3355
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 08:35
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/RITH
Location: Almere
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by RITH » Thu Mar 01, 2012 14:23

The only big advantage for me would be that some of the bands would actually come over to the Netherlands.

As we've concluded many times before though, you can't really define indiepop only by the music. As soon as mainstream success is achieved, a lot of the surrounding factors fall away and it stops being the whole package that we (I?) love.

Purely going by the sound, it would be ok to hear some more of these songs on the radio, but I can already listen to all the songs I like whenever I want.

Conclusion: all the best to the bands who manage, I wish you all the money and number 1s that you can get, but for my own sake: don't try too hard.

Jangloid Mark
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 18:38
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/JanglyMark
Location: Swansea, Wales
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by Jangloid Mark » Thu Mar 01, 2012 14:35

RITH wrote:As we've concluded many times before though, you can't really define indiepop only by the music. As soon as mainstream success is achieved, a lot of the surrounding factors fall away and it stops being the whole package that we (I?) love.
I can half see that, for instance, the packaging....for instance, the Sarah singles coming in foldover sleeves with inserts, the way they did), but, I don't fully buy this.

To give an instance (and one that I've used before), should 'Briaris' by Sarah Records band, The Sweetest Ache, get a prominant play in a film, or a Dawson's Creek type series, it's not unfathomable, especially in this age of downloads, that it would race up the charts.

Would the said song, or indeed said band, stop being indiepop? I'm sure there are other bands/songs that this could apply to as well...
Love is a weakness in the knees...it's dangerous on the stairs...

Bandcamp : https://janglymark.bandcamp.com/
Facebook : http://www.facebook.com/Jangly.Mark
Skype : Jangly Mark (feel free to call me)

indiansummer
Posts: 6658
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 09:52
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/heartsturnblue
Location: from Liverpool / in Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by indiansummer » Thu Mar 01, 2012 15:23

Jangloid Mark wrote:
RITH wrote:As we've concluded many times before though, you can't really define indiepop only by the music. As soon as mainstream success is achieved, a lot of the surrounding factors fall away and it stops being the whole package that we (I?) love.
I can half see that, for instance, the packaging....for instance, the Sarah singles coming in foldover sleeves with inserts, the way they did), but, I don't fully buy this.
if i can be so presumptuous as to suggest what RITH is actually saying, i think you've missed the point here, Mark

the point isn't the way the records are sold or packaged

the point is that indiepop may not be defined by, but certainly generates a sense of 'otherness' and separation from the mainstream/charts/whatever. if it becomes mainstream, that sense of otherness is lost

you could possibly argue that this otherness is elitis if you really wanted, but at the same time it's part of the foundation of communities like this ol' family here on anorak

i'm not doubting that some bands that we cherish on here have the potential for bigger audiences. i'm just saying that what makes them special and unique to indiepop would necessarily be lost in the translation. that doesn't mean we have to start hating them. but it might mean that a band that was once special because they were yours (well, or indeed ours) won;t have that personal fascination any more

especially if (to use your example) The School shows were suddenly full of beery, leery lads yelling 'get your tits out' or spending most of the gig looking at the band through a mobile phone screen (not that i'm suggesting these are the main tenets of mainstream concert-going, obviously, they're just silly examples)

supposedly indie rock's uphill for mainstream success was infinitely more fun than the 'victory' (such as it was) - i can see how that would work

sometimes secrets are more fun before they get out
halo my middle, a hula hoop hug

User avatar
RITH
Posts: 3355
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 08:35
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/RITH
Location: Almere
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by RITH » Thu Mar 01, 2012 15:39

Exactly. Well, close enough at least. Well done! I won't go into a new discussion about defining indiepop, so for now: yes.

indiansummer
Posts: 6658
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 09:52
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/heartsturnblue
Location: from Liverpool / in Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by indiansummer » Thu Mar 01, 2012 15:39

actually i think i have been very presumptuous here

ah well
halo my middle, a hula hoop hug

indiansummer
Posts: 6658
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 09:52
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/heartsturnblue
Location: from Liverpool / in Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by indiansummer » Thu Mar 01, 2012 15:42

RITH wrote:Exactly. Well, close enough at least. Well done! I won't go into a new discussion about defining indiepop, so for now: yes.
oh god, no, i don't think anyone wants that debate again!
halo my middle, a hula hoop hug

User avatar
RITH
Posts: 3355
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 08:35
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/RITH
Location: Almere
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by RITH » Thu Mar 01, 2012 15:51

I just re-read that Phil Wilson interview Andy 'A Fog of Ideas' did a couple of years back, and I agree with his take on indiepop here.
Phil wrote:I guess that it's what could be described as "Pop" music: upbeat, tuneful and full of hooks. But it's pop music created by people who are less interested in the idea of "popularity" per se, and so pursue their own path.
This doesn't mean a song or band couldn't accidently crash into the 'mainstream', and we'd all be pleased for them. But like Will said, it's not hard to see that the 'indie' in indiepop is immedeately at big risk of dissappearing after that. For better or worse.

I personally do like 'my' bands to be approachable, and I don't really feel the need to discuss Pencil Tin with my colleagues anyway.
Last edited by RITH on Thu Mar 01, 2012 19:05, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
iainmayfield
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 16:46

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by iainmayfield » Thu Mar 01, 2012 16:17

Does it really need mainstream acceptance?

I mean, a lot of the bands that everyone "raves" about on here don't really cut the mustard - some are good and some are bloody awful. Most, if not nearly all, will never be mainstream.

It the music is good, then it will be listened to. If it's not , then no-one is going to bother.

A good example were the Darling Buds. When they first came out I saw them live loads of times and they were really good. Then they turned up on Saturday morning kids telly and it all went down hill from there. The sound became too polished and all the things that were good were lost. Another example were the Bodines - great band but I remember them doing some song at Alton Towers on a kids TV show one afternoon long ago - they were SO out of place. They never recovered from that....

User avatar
linus
Posts: 2491
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 17:55

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by linus » Thu Mar 01, 2012 18:02

iainmayfield wrote:It the music is good, then it will be listened to.
by the same token if the paper is good, then it will be bought and read by the most people which makes the sun the best paper of all, hurrah!

if that's the sole definition of what's good then no indiepop is good other than to a small coterie of listeners who have yet to catch on that the proper good stuff is listened to by that big sprawling mass over there

I think there's enough evidence that if the music is good it often gets overlooked or doesn't register until later and might only be listened to by a small group during it's time (and possibly even later on but it abides, it's appeal sustains)

perhaps you're getting at that and I agree with the examples given, both the bodines and the darling buds went to piddle attempting to 'crossover'

ultimately, I reckon they should cross over to us rather than the other way 'round

User avatar
RITH
Posts: 3355
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 08:35
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/RITH
Location: Almere
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by RITH » Thu Mar 01, 2012 19:09

a fog of ideas wrote:ultimately, I reckon they should cross over to us rather than the other way 'round
End of thread.



Nono, sorry Mark. Continue.

User avatar
indiehorse
Posts: 1941
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:50
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by indiehorse » Thu Mar 01, 2012 19:11

Why the fuck would indiepop want to go Mainstream? Mainstream is a muddy wasteland, devoid of passion and hope. The Man, the emperor of Mainstream, sits on his thrown laughing as he pisses into a plastic cup whilst the proles queue up to buy this delicacy they know as "lager" for five gold pieces. He stops only to have his cock sucked by a young wannabe starlette. She just wants the love a good man, but there is no love in Mainstream. So she aims to get the love of a hundred fans, but it's not enough, because there is no love in Mainstream. So she aims to get the love of an arena full of a hundred thousand million fans who have paid fifty gold pieces each and they can't even see the stage, but they know it's worth it, because they're told it's worth it. But it's not enough, because there is no love in Mainstream.

I love the idea of everybody suddenly falling in love with indiepop; I do not love the idea of everybody listening to indiepop because they herd it on a "Dawson's Creek type show" and because Simon Cowell and Fern Cotton told them it's really good.

I think capitalist society is about a million light years away from embracing the ethos of indiepop. But if and when they do, that won't mean everyone listening to the same bands, it'll mean more indie bands popping up; more indie labels; more popshows.

User avatar
crystalball
Posts: 5197
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 18:04
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/felters
Location: That London
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by crystalball » Thu Mar 01, 2012 19:17

*applauds in the general direction of Nottingham*

User avatar
boney
Posts: 1767
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 08:18
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/boneyboy
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by boney » Thu Mar 01, 2012 19:25

Indiehorse, you rule.

User avatar
indiehorse
Posts: 1941
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:50
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by indiehorse » Thu Mar 01, 2012 19:32

boney wrote:Indiehorse, you rule.
Only in a democratic and non-hierarchical fashion with the rest of my comrades, but thank you; although some of the credit should go to The Rum.

User avatar
boney
Posts: 1767
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 08:18
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/boneyboy
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by boney » Thu Mar 01, 2012 19:34

indiehorse wrote:
boney wrote:Indiehorse, you rule.
some of the credit should go to The Rum.
Always.

Outcognito
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:26
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/
Location: Smoke-on-Toast
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by Outcognito » Thu Mar 01, 2012 20:01

indiehorse wrote:Why the fuck would indiepop want to go Mainstream? Mainstream is a muddy wasteland, devoid of passion and hope. The Man, the emperor of Mainstream, sits on his thrown laughing as he pisses into a plastic cup whilst the proles queue up to buy this delicacy they know as "lager" for five gold pieces. He stops only to have his cock sucked by a young wannabe starlette. She just wants the love a good man, but there is no love in Mainstream. So she aims to get the love of a hundred fans, but it's not enough, because there is no love in Mainstream. So she aims to get the love of an arena full of a hundred thousand million fans who have paid fifty gold pieces each and they can't even see the stage, but they know it's worth it, because they're told it's worth it. But it's not enough, because there is no love in Mainstream.

I love the idea of everybody suddenly falling in love with indiepop; I do not love the idea of everybody listening to indiepop because they herd it on a "Dawson's Creek type show" and because Simon Cowell and Fern Cotton told them it's really good.

I think capitalist society is about a million light years away from embracing the ethos of indiepop. But if and when they do, that won't mean everyone listening to the same bands, it'll mean more indie bands popping up; more indie labels; more popshows.
Beautifully put....
It's so easy when the door is wide open.

Jangloid Mark
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 18:38
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/JanglyMark
Location: Swansea, Wales
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by Jangloid Mark » Thu Mar 01, 2012 20:04

indiehorse wrote:I love the idea of everybody suddenly falling in love with indiepop; I do not love the idea of everybody listening to indiepop because they herd it on a "Dawson's Creek type show" and because Simon Cowell and Fern Cotton told them it's really good.
Indiehorse, I love so much of what you wrote...that really was an excellent post...

While I don't disagree in spirit with what I've quoted here, there is another side to this...

First, a little story (VERY short, I promise!!!).

I'd been in town, one day in 1987. I met a girl I really liked for a coffee. Despite however much I wished, it wasn't a date. We parted a little after 6.30. My bus was fifteen minutes later. I JUST caught it and got home in time for Top Of The Pops. During which, they showed the video for 'Catch' by The Cure. (A diffeent video to the one on Youtube/Dailymotion today - did they make two?). It was like nothing I'd heard before and I fell instantly in love with it...and it gave me a whole new world to explore...I started buying the NME not long after that (it was a decent paper then) and finding out about loads of other bands...the rest, as they say, is history.

Had I missed that bus (and therefore missed TOTP), that journey may not have taken place...maybe it would have later, who knows...

The point of this? Well, TOTP no longer exists. To all intents and purposes the indie chart doesn't either...the thing we know and love that is indiepop is nowhere on the radar.

The people who choose the music in 'Dawson Creek type shows', likewise with adverts tend to be people who lovew music and often tend to have quite an esoteric taste. Certainly with adverts, we have seen the likes of Kak, The Boy Least Likely To, The Velvet Underground and more being used as soundtracks. By the same token, I offer up the Juno soundtrack.

If someone discovers one band, then others, then falls head over heels with indiepop the way I did (and many, many of you did as well), then, who am I to make a judgement on that?
Love is a weakness in the knees...it's dangerous on the stairs...

Bandcamp : https://janglymark.bandcamp.com/
Facebook : http://www.facebook.com/Jangly.Mark
Skype : Jangly Mark (feel free to call me)

User avatar
boney
Posts: 1767
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 08:18
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/boneyboy
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by boney » Thu Mar 01, 2012 20:15

You hear Allo Darlin' in Costa Coffee sometimes down here, Bogshed in Top Man.

User avatar
indiehorse
Posts: 1941
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:50
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: The advantages of indiepop getting mainstream acceptance

Post by indiehorse » Thu Mar 01, 2012 20:18

Well that's a lovely story, Mark, but one person's journey into discovering new music does not equate to a type/style/ethos of music becoming Mainstream.

I didn't mean to imply that someone shouldn't fall in love with indiepop because of where they'd heard, my point was there's no victory in them listening to it simply because of where they heard it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest