Public transport policy

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Sootyzilla
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Public transport policy

Post by Sootyzilla » Fri Jun 20, 2008 01:32

The Scottish Socialist Party last year campaigned in the election on a platform of introducing free public transport. They've now relaunched the campaign: http://www.freepublictransport.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

Judging by that graphic, the SSP want to bring back steam trains, too. Yay!
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Re: Public transport policy

Post by Woodbine » Sat Jun 21, 2008 16:03

They're not going to 'lead the world in the fight against climate chaos' with that, are they? Tsk.
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Re: Public transport policy

Post by wrapyrtroubles » Sat Jun 21, 2008 16:30

don't worry, they're not coal powered, they're going to harness the steam from people making poached eggs

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by Gordon » Mon Aug 18, 2008 18:50

Finally!
(edit: damn you spam-bot removers)
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Re: Public transport policy

Post by a layer of chips » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:36

I just got sent this. Thought it might interest you geeks.
EMBARGOED UNTIL FRIDAY 21ST NOVEMBER 2008, 00.01



Britain’s largest cities – from Newcastle to Bristol – need their own version of London’s Oyster card to encourage city residents back on to public transport, according to a new Centre for Cities report, out today.



While London has seen a boom in bus use, with 51% growth over the last decade, bus companies are losing passengers in other large urban areas, where bus use has stagnated or plummeted over the same period:



o Tyne and Wear (including Newcastle and Sunderland) has seen a decline in bus ridership – with the number of bus journeys made dropping by over a quarter in the past decade.



o Numbers of bus journeys have also dropped by a fifth in Merseyside and South Yorkshire.



Growth/Decline in bus passenger journeys per 10,000 residents in UK urban areas




Five-year

% growth/decline

(02/03-07/08)
Ten-year

% growth/decline

(97/98-07/08)

London
33.3%
51.4%

Greater Manchester
4.3%
3.0%

West Midlands
-7.4%
-12.5%

West Yorkshire
-9.1%
-15.9%

Merseyside
-5.2%
-19.7%

South Yorkshire
-10.5%
-20.5%

Tyne and Wear
-15.1%
-25.4%


Source: Own representation with data from DfT (2008) and Nomis



To drive up bus use and improve public transport in UK urban areas, the report calls for ‘Oyster’ style integrated travel tickets in Britain’s biggest cities. Centre for Cities recommends new partnerships between city leaders, transport operators and private sector ticketing firms, some of which are already willing to invest in ticketing solutions. These partnerships are needed to overcome the current financial, technological and regulatory hurdles that prevent other cities from following London’s lead.



Alongside clear, easy-to-use integrated tickets for buses and all other modes of local transport, the report also recommends:



o A faster transition to new Integrated Transport Authorities in Greater Manchester, Birmingham, Merseyside, Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle, Bristol and Tees Valley - with boundaries that reflect city-region labour markets. These new bodies have all the powers needed to bring together local transport services - which existing transport authorities currently lack.



o A greater focus from the Department for Transport on urban bus services, establishing a clear point of contact for city-regions seeking to improve bus services, whether through London-style franchised services or through a tighter partnership between operators and local councils, like in Brighton, Cambridge and York.



Dr Adam Marshall, Head of Policy at the Centre for Cities said,



“Over the past three decades Labour and Conservative governments alike have failed to turn around public transport in Britain’s big urban areas – and city residents have increasingly opted for the car.



“Except in London, transport in most British cities remains fragmented and uncoordinated. This is a big problem in today’s tough economic climate as public transport is a lifeline to work and services. Cities like Newcastle and Liverpool need their own Oyster-style travel card if they’re to persuade people back on to buses – and help residents stay in work.”



Robbie Owen, Partner and Head of Major Projects at Bircham Dyson Bell said:



“The Local Transport Bill provides some important opportunities for the development and integration of local transport. The introduction of Integrated Transport Authorities and the prospect of the new powers which come with them, need to be grasped and this will mean undertaking governance reviews. Whilst Quality Contracts may be the headline, smarter choices and smartcard ticketing will also deliver massive improvements for passengers.”



Keith Mitchell, Partner, Peter Brett Associates said,



“The planning and delivery of public transport in our major cities is fragmented and does not permit the substantial improvements to public transport we need to be made rapidly and effectively. This paper offers some interesting and practical policy options that could help to overcome some of the barriers to improved ridership, and enable public transport to better support the economy by providing better access to jobs and business.”



For more information, please contact: Rosamund Taylor, Acting External Affairs Manager, Centre for Cities, 0207 803 4316.



Mobile: 07876 175 426

r.taylor@centreforcities.org



On the Move: Delivering integrated transport in Britain’s cities is available to download from http://www.centreforcities.org/onthemove from Friday 21st November or upon request.



This report was authored by John Preston, Professor at the School of Civil Engineering and the Environment, University of Southampton, and director of the Transportation Research Group and Dr Adam Marshall and Lena Tochtermann at the Centre for Cities.



This independent report was produced with support from Peter Brett Associates and Bircham Dyson Bell.



Peter Brett Associates LLP is an independent multi-specialist consultancy, bringing engineering, planning and technical excellence together to deliver sustainable development and infrastructure projects worldwide.



Bircham Dyson Bell LLP is a leading law firm with a particular focus on real estate and major projects, providing a uniquely comprehensive range of legal, political and public affairs services to clients involved in regeneration and renewal. These extend from initial feasibility, through the planning and authorisation stages and on to procurement, funding and construction.



The Centre for Cities is an independent urban policy research unit. It is a registered charity (No 1119841) and a company limited by guarantee registered in England (No 6215397). Our main goal is to understand how and why economic growth and change takes place in Britain's cities, and to help cities improve their economic performance.



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Re: Public transport policy

Post by humblebee » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:44

Oyster cards are nice and everything, but I think part of the reason people are turning away from the buses in South Yorkshire is that they don't really care for 80 per cent fare hikes within four years, operating companies publicly lying about the reasons for fare hikes, consistently shocking levels of reliability and punctuality, and bus drivers calling them cunts.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by crystalball » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:59

The thing is, the Oyster card thing, that's the very end bit of what that whole scheme should be about. It's transport integration that makes London work not the ticket format. In Sheffield, buses seem to be run like pirate ships. Companies are making timetables and fares up as they go along and there doesn't seem to be any overall control and accountability. It's great that there is some initiative to change that but it's silly to be focusing on the Oyster card because that's hardly the point.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by acb » Thu Dec 04, 2008 15:58

Sootyzilla wrote:The Scottish Socialist Party last year campaigned in the election on a platform of introducing free public transport. They've now relaunched the campaign: http://www.freepublictransport.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

Judging by that graphic, the SSP want to bring back steam trains, too. Yay!
A problem with free public transport is that then the trains/buses become de facto homeless shelters (where else can you get a warm, dry place for nothing?), driving those who aren't desperate for shelter off.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by tonieee » Thu Dec 04, 2008 16:32

South Yorkshire has (or used to have) an Oyster-style card. You could only buy it from the bus station but it would let you on any bus, train or tram in South Yorkshire. The only problem with it was that it was so expensive. When I used to get it I used it to get from my house to the city centre and then from the city centre to work which was one stop beyond the South Yorkshire border. It worked out at the same price as doing that journey twice a day, five days a week. I stopped getting it when the bus drivers started noticing that I was going one stop into Derbyshire and charged me the difference.

I imagine the price of it now has gone up to match the price of the new fares.

I use my feet most of the time these days as the buses are so unreliable that it's often quicker to walk, it's cheaper and it keeps you fit!

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by Jangloid Mark » Thu Dec 04, 2008 16:49

I'm largely in agreement with what has been said above.
Bus fares are astronomical here. There are no timetables on many of the bus stops, you have to take 2 buses to get to were you want to go if it isn't town....and, most of the time, the bus times don't link up....which means waiting in the bus station for up to half an hour mid-journey.

I use the bus because I have to....but, the service leaves a lot to be desired.

I, for one would welcome free public transport, but, it would have to be made to be reliable as well...
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Re: Public transport policy

Post by humblebee » Fri May 29, 2009 11:42

Everywhere that people talk about new tram and rail routes, business is happy at the prospect of regeneration and better transport links, right? Not in the UK's car-crazed west midlands!
Colin Leithfield, chairman, Black Country Chamber of Trade transport group wrote:The Metro is fine for people who can get to the point where they can get on and who can conveniently get to a place at the other end where they get off... I am old enough to remember the old trams on the streets of Birmingham and I loved riding on them, but we have to be realistic. Back then, people mainly lived and worked within small areas and their journeys would be relatively simple. The difference is that now the population is dispersed far more widely and journeys can be more complex.
That's so true, Colin. Better abolish all public transport and shoot people who can't drive.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by Carys » Fri May 29, 2009 19:33

When I go home to my parents, it's £3.50 single for a four-mile journey, and I have to walk about a mile to get to the bus stop in the first place. If travelling with friends, it is almost always more cost effective to get a cab. That's never a good sign.

Have to say: the Oyster system will be a bit better still when all Overground trains are integrated.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by pennybroadhurst » Fri May 29, 2009 21:08

First are cutting so many bus services in West Yorkshire that from July if I want to go anywhere in an evening between 6 and the last bus home at 11.10 I either have to pay over the odds to get a Keighley bus or walk for a considerable distance and get a slow bus from another part of my suburb as they've decided to get rid of the buses at 7, 8, 9 and 10pm. Cheers. So if we want to go to a gig either E has to drive or we have to spend loads.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by Concrete » Fri May 29, 2009 21:33

tonieee wrote:South Yorkshire has (or used to have) an Oyster-style card. You could only buy it from the bus station but it would let you on any bus, train or tram in South Yorkshire.
That's not really an Oyster-style thing though, that's just like the good old-fashioned travelcard. Unless you're just not describing it in full, in which case I apologise. But Oyster's like an electronic thing where you have an account, and it charges you per journey (unless it adds up to more than the cost of a travelcard in a day, in which case it stops charging you at that point).

They've encouraged people to get them by really, really hiking the prices up for non-Oyster customers - it used to be £1.50 to get from one London station to another only a few years ago, but it's now about £4. They've also made it much more expensive to drive into London, which has probably helped the London figures a bit.

I'm frustrated by public transport prices. I know I bang on about it, but it's wrong that it should cost me twice as much to get to work by train as it does to drive myself there.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by noodlé » Fri May 29, 2009 22:02

Concrete wrote:They've encouraged people to get them by really, really hiking the prices up for non-Oyster customers - it used to be £1.50 to get from one London station to another only a few years ago, but it's now about £4. They've also made it much more expensive to drive into London, which has probably helped the London figures a bit.
also, the oystercard essentially makes is much easier to do something that most london people probably already did anyway. london public transport is excellent compared to the ret of the country... and driving/parking are not. in other cities most people just don't use public transport at all.. because it's so rarely the most economic or convenient way to travel. making it easier to use will be great for the people that already use it... but i don't see what it doing much to persuade non-users to change their habits. i have an oystercard for when i'm in london and it's great... and if i lived there then the system, by virtue of it's convenience, would probably ensure i used public transport more than i would without it. but if nottingham introduced something similar i'm not sure i'd get one. it's the limitations of the service that keep me from using nottingham public transport... not how i pay for them.
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Re: Public transport policy

Post by String Bean Jen » Fri May 29, 2009 23:43

Cherry Darling wrote: Have to say: the Oyster system will be a bit better still when all Overground trains are integrated.
Is that really happening? If so, do you know when?
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Re: Public transport policy

Post by tonieee » Sat May 30, 2009 10:27

Concrete wrote:That's not really an Oyster-style thing though, that's just like the good old-fashioned travelcard. Unless you're just not describing it in full, in which case I apologise. But Oyster's like an electronic thing where you have an account, and it charges you per journey (unless it adds up to more than the cost of a travelcard in a day, in which case it stops charging you at that point).
I didn't know that that's what an Oyster card is - I thought it was just like a fancy electronic travel card.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by Carys » Sat May 30, 2009 10:34

String Bean Jen wrote:
Cherry Darling wrote: Have to say: the Oyster system will be a bit better still when all Overground trains are integrated.
Is that really happening? If so, do you know when?
I definitely remember reading that it was happening, and has been happening in dribs and drabs - the Overground trains in North London didn't used to be integrated, but are now - I can't find a link just now though.

I know that when the East London Line extension will take PAYG when it reopens - I'm not sure if the existing train services will run, though, given that it's exactly the same as the Southern line that already exists. Presumably, London Transport have bought that line or something. They've certainly installed Oyster card readers on most of the stations.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by Carys » Sat May 30, 2009 10:39

noodlé wrote:also, the oystercard essentially makes is much easier to do something that most london people probably already did anyway. .
Unless, of course, you want to get a train - then you have to pay another fare on top if you didn't realise Oyster doesn't count. And let's not forget how you can't top up your Oyster card at loads of stations, even if they are on the tube.

I use Oyster for bus journeys because it's twice as expensive not to - an annoyance in itself, what if you're getting a night bus and all the shops are shut so you can't top up? - otherwise I stick to paper Travelcards. Plus you can get a Young Person's Railcard discount on paper Travelcards too - all six zones for £5.

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Re: Public transport policy

Post by Gordon » Sun May 31, 2009 11:57

Cherry Darling wrote:
String Bean Jen wrote: Is that really happening? If so, do you know when?
I definitely remember reading that it was happening, and has been happening in dribs and drabs - the Overground trains in North London didn't used to be integrated, but are now - I can't find a link just now though.

I know that when the East London Line extension will take PAYG when it reopens - I'm not sure if the existing train services will run, though, given that it's exactly the same as the Southern line that already exists. Presumably, London Transport have bought that line or something. They've certainly installed Oyster card readers on most of the stations.
Of course there's a difference between overground and Overground...
The London Overground Network will be that big orange circular thing using the former East London line, the silverlink/North London (train) Line, and some lines that run parallel to those on the other side of London. At least that's how I remembered it being when facts about London Transport featured in my brain.
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